Sunday November 22, 2009 8:53 PM ET
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The 401(k) Rollover Conundrum
Many brokers advise rolling your 401(k) into an IRA, but is that just a sales pitch?
 
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sundaresan SmartMoney Insiders
2 Comments
I recently came across a very good article for rolling your 401(k) into stocks or land - http://www.brooklyntroy.com/index.php/blog/401k-Rollover-into-Stocks-or-Land.html

Posted by: battistam
I recently closed out a SEP IRA that was in a Money market and was charged $100 to close the account. Certainly seems outrageous for cutting a check out of a cash account. Dept of Labor said it seemed excessive as well, but there are no regulations on fees charged for closing out accounts. Our government not at work again as usual.
Posted by: RolloverUSA
You can do your due dilligence by reading http:www.rolloverusa.com which will provide great information, tools, and local advisor resources.

http://www.RolloverUSA.com
RedseaDiver SmartMoney Insiders
5 Comments
401k and IRA are some of the most confusing programs around...Unless someone has interest in financial matters. it's all gobbelygook. I have known physicians who kept hundreds of thousands of dollars in their personal checking accounts because the did not understand the basics of 401K and IRAs. So how do you expect the average person to make the right decisions. No wonder the average IRA account is only $40,000.
Posted by: smashingz29
I think this article is very limited in scope and focuses on fees only. And ultimately, many individuals do the same thing.

First of all, do you want to go to back to your former employer every time you want to take a withdrawal, loan, etc. and have to get their signature? In addition, do you want to have to have your spouse get the form notarized each time also?

If you pass away, most 401k plans administrators want the money out immediately so their is a bigger tax bite than if you took it out over five years or over the course of your lifetime. IRAs can do this (no such thing as a stretch 401k, but there is a stretch IRA).

Most 401k plans have limited fund lineups and don't have things like emerging markets, REITS, TIPS,yet alone ETFs. Can't get full diversity and an efficient portfolio when excluding asset classes

The stock market did 15% a year between 1984 and 2000. The individual investor did 5%! For an extra 50 to 100 bps, isn't is wor...(Read more of this comment)
Posted by: djast14
decsatsv...OJ was able to continue living so well because he had annuities that were paying out, and annuities are difficult for creditors to attach to...that is why so many doctors use them as retirement vehicles...

As to the fees paid by a 401k...the funds used within a 401k are typically institutional share classes that do have lower expense ratios than those paid in a retail account. However, the funds are typically limited to mediocre performers versus what would be available to an individual invester. There are something like 26,000 mutual funds available in the world...you would be extraordinarily lucky to have even one of the 12-20 funds available in a 401k platform that was in the 1st quintile (top 20%) for its sector.
mcl-mixer SmartMoney Insiders
1 Comments
Posted by: marcitr
I rolled my old 401(k) and 403(b) over into a self-directed IRA. I then used the IRA to purchase land. The value of the land I purchased in April 2008 has tripled in the last year. I am so happy I took the money out of the old accounts, instead of losing money to the market I know I made a smart investment decision. However, management fees are not exactly cheap, but it is a minimal price I have to pay for being in complete control of my retirement money. Plus, the ROI of my investment will completely outweigh the fees, so I am not worried about it. One of the best decisions I ever made!
Posted by: wswilliams
It is bothersome that costs are usually looked at as the ultimate factor in returns. The fact is, many (if not most)401k platforms don't offer alternatives like real estate, foreign bonds, emerging markets, commodities, convertibles etc. that a good advisor will use for true diversification. They also usually restrict the participant to few options in each niche that are often inferior. Flexibility can make a big difference. Costs matter but ultimately returns rule.
Kodydogg SmartMoney Insiders
109 Comments
Sorry decsatsv, you are only partially correct. While IRA's do not fall under ERISA laws as 401k's do (and under the federal exemption from creditors that ERISA provides for retirement assets) state laws come into play to protect IRA assets from creditors, whether or not bankruptcy is declared. Many states exempt 100% of IRA assets and many more will exempt all assets up to a cap amount. While the protection afforded 401k assets by ERISA should not be overlooked, it is incorrect to assume that IRA assets have no protections. Here is a good article on the subject: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/business/retirementspecial/02CREDIT.html
Posted by: decsatsv
You forgot to mention a huge advantage of the 401K, especially in these times. It is exempt from seizure by creditors, while IRAs are not. That is why OJ continued to live in luxury right up until his latest criminal act forced a radical downgrade of his standard of living.
Posted by: tcc34
The main reason for rolling over your 401k is the flexibility that an IRA offers. As the above examples only had to do with mutual fund companies this fact is over looked. A rollover could go into CD's, stocks, bonds, etc and maybe some ETF's and mutual funds as well.

Not a very informative article - below the quality that is usually presented on this site
Kodydogg SmartMoney Insiders
109 Comments
I am puzzled by the nearly blanket statement that costs borne by participants are nearly always lower than they would be in an IRA. I would be very surprised if this were acutally the case. When am employer sets up a plan, they can choose whether to pay administrative and recordkeeping costs out of the company's pocket or pass the charges down to participants. (Few employers do this, however it is a option) Additionally, their is no massive reduction in the expense ratios of mutual funds offered within a 401k platform than those that might be available in a brokerage based IRA. In the article's defense, they do seemto be zeroing in on single fund family (direct) IRA rollovers. However, I am relatively certain that you can build a portfolio of funds/etf's that would compete favorably both on a performance basis as well as a cost basis against the cheapest 401k options. The true potential benefit to a rollover IRA vs. remaining in a previous emplyers 401k revolves around breadth of inves...(Read more of this comment)
Kodydogg SmartMoney Insiders
109 Comments
Posted by: gz5x37
Posted by: gz5x37
So what's your point? Should we or should'nt we rollover our 401(k)? What are the advantages and disadvantages?
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